Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
03/17/2021 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB97 | |
| Confirmation Hearings | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 97 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 17, 2021
3:32 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Joshua Revak, Chair
Senator Peter Micciche, Vice Chair
Senator Click Bishop
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Natasha von Imhof
Senator Jesse Kiehl
Senator Scott Kawasaki
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 97
"An Act relating to state land; relating to the authority of the
Department of Education and Early Development to dispose of
state land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities to dispose of state land;
relating to the authority of the Department of Natural Resources
over certain state land; relating to the state land disposal
income fund; relating to the leasing and sale of state land for
commercial development; repealing establishment of recreation
rivers and recreation river corridors; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
CONFIRMATIONS HEARING(S)
Regulatory Commission of Alaska
Robert Pickett
Keith Kurber
- CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 97
SHORT TITLE: STATE LAND SALES AND LEASES; RIVERS
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
03/03/21 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/03/21 (S) RES, FIN
03/17/21 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
CORRI FEIGE, Commissioner
Department of Natural Resources
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided an overview of SB 97.
MARTY PARSONS, Director
Division of Mining, Land, and Water
Department of Natural Resources
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Delivered a PowerPoint to introduce SB 97.
DAVE SCHADE, Director
Division of Agriculture
Department of Natural Resources
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided an overview of agricultural land
disposal and an amended definition of agricultural land use
during the hearing on SB 97.
MEL GILLIS, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 97.
MARGARET STERN, representing self
Talkeetna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 97.
HOWARD CARBONE, Board Member
Susitna River Coalition
Talkeetna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 97.
ANDREW COUCH, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 97.
KENDRA ZAMZOW, representing self
Chickaloon, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 97.
MICHAEL OVERCAST, owner
Tordrillo Mountain Lodge
Judd Lake, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 97.
ROBERT PICKETT, Commissioner Appointee
Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA)
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Regulatory
Commission of Alaska.
KEITH KURBER, Commissioner Appointee
Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA)
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Regulatory
Commission of Alaska.
ALYSSA SAPPENFIELD, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to Mr. Kurber's
appointment to the Regulatory Commission of Alaska.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:32:17 PM
CHAIR JOSHUA REVAK called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:32 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Stevens, von Imhof, Kiehl, Kawasaki,
Micciche, and Chair Revak. Senator Bishop arrived soon
thereafter.
SB 97-STATE LAND SALES AND LEASES; RIVERS
3:33:02 PM
CHAIR REVAK announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 97
"An Act relating to state land; relating to the authority of the
Department of Education and Early Development to dispose of
state land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities to dispose of state land;
relating to the authority of the Department of Natural Resources
over certain state land; relating to the state land disposal
income fund; relating to the leasing and sale of state land for
commercial development; repealing establishment of recreation
rivers and recreation river corridors; and providing for an
effective date."
CHAIR REVAK listed the presenters and the individuals available
to answer questions.
3:33:42 PM
CORRI FEIGE, Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources,
Anchorage, Alaska, stated a top priority of Governor Dunleavy is
to open land up for enjoyment, personal and commercial use, to
create opportunities for Alaskans to grow businesses and the
economy, and to create opportunities for Alaskan ownership. She
stated that Senate Bill 97 removes certain land designations
which create unnecessary restrictions and conflicting barriers
to land use and development.
COMMISSIONER FEIGE said that this bill improves Alaska's ability
to rely on what we can hunt, gather, and grow locally. It will
mitigate supply chain vulnerability to improve overall food
security. The Commissioner summed-up that the bill's statutory
changes streamline management processes aimed at the removal of
barriers to land use and sales and is expected to get
individuals and commercial operators back to work sooner.
COMMISSIONER FEIGE deferred further introduction of SB 97 to
Marty Parsons.
3:35:50 PM
SENATOR BISHOP joined the committee meeting.
3:36:15 PM
MARTY PARSONS, Director, Division of Mining, Land, and Water,
Department of Natural Resources, Anchorage, Alaska, opened with
slide 1 for his presentation "SB 97 State Land Sales and Leases;
Rivers. He explained, in slide 2, that SB 97 amends current
statute to allow the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities (DOTPF) and the Department of Education and Early
Development (DEED) to independently dispose of certain surplus
property. Specifically, property acquired under the authority of
each department's respective statutes and property that is no
longer needed for the purpose of its original acquisition. Under
current standard operating procedures, surplus land is
transferred to the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) prior
to disposal. This bill allows DNR to be bypassed, so the
disposal process is streamlined, and multi-agency efforts
reduced.
3:38:58 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said this issue is relevant to school sites that
are no longer needed but he asked how other agencies wind-up
with surplus property.
MR. PARSONS answered that DOTPF has the authority to acquire
land for highways and public facilities. He said suppose DOTPF
acquires property for a capital expansion or a port expansion
project. If the capital expansion never materializes or the port
never expands, the land becomes surplus. This bill allows DOTPF
to dispose of these properties, which were never utilized for
the purpose intended.
3:40:19 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if the department works with local
municipalities prior to the disposal of public state land.
MR. PARSONS answered yes, the department works closely with
local municipalities if it is disposing of lands through a land
disposal process or a lease agreement with a company or
individual.
MR. PARSONS noted that he is not familiar with all DOTPF and
DEED land disposal statutes and regulations, but the
Constitution of the State of Alaska requires a public land
disposal process and the public must be informed.
3:41:33 PM
SENATOR KIEHL brought up a philosophical point. He said the
administration emphasizes consolidation of government
operations, in particular purchases. However, this bill takes
the opposite approach; it decentralizes operations. He asked how
it is an improvement to have two additional departments, with
separate rules, dispose of lands.
MR. PARSONS answered that DOTPF already has the authority to
dispose of land; this bill provides an additional method.
SENATOR KIEHL drew attention to the bill section that fails to
denote existing DOTPF rules as the authority for land disposal.
Rather, the commissioner may establish the terms for the land
disposal.
MR. PARSONS responded that is correct. In most cases, the
commissioner chooses this option for land disposal. He noted the
importance of a robust public process prior to the adoption of
any regulations. He cited AO 266 which requires public
engagement prior to adopting any regulations.
3:43:32 PM
MR. PARSONS advanced to slide 3, Land Disposal Income Fund
(LDIF). He said this slide explains the need for an LDIF cap
increase from $5 million to $12 million. The chart on slide 3
depicts the diminished value of working capital as it is
squeezed between a 20-year-old fund cap and ever-increasing
direct personnel and development costs.
LAND DISPOSAL INCOME FUND
(LDIF)
Increase Land Disposal
Income Fund (LDIF)Cap
Increase spending authority from the
LDIF for project development
The cap on the LDIF is proposed to be
increased from $5M to $12M to provide
additional capital for the department to
develop and dispose of state lands and to
offset inflation since the fund was
established in 2000
The $5M cap has not been adjusted in 20 years
Personnel and Development costs have increased
significantly, reducing the available "working
capital"
This will result in more acreage available for sale
and construction of access
This is not an appropriation increase, simply an
adjustment to the funding cap
MR. PARSONS stated that to have the available working capital to
build infrastructure at municipality and borough standards, the
cap needs to increase to $12 million.
3:46:40 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF stated that sometimes land must be developed
in order to obtain the best sale price. She requested
clarification of the following point on slide 3:
The cap on the LDIF is proposed to be increased for
the department to develop and dispose of state
lands...
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked if this phrase means to "develop and
disposedevelop in order to dispose," or "develop or
dispose.
MR. PARSONS answered that all three interpretations apply. He
said the land development process requires a survey, established
corners for lot lines, and the construction of a road system.
The cap increase would provide the revenue necessary to fund
infrastructure development, this is especially true in boroughs
and municipalities as these projects must be approved by
platting boards to be eligible to sale.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked if this occurs all over the state, from
Ketchikan to Utqiagvik, or if this pertains to one section of
the state.
MR. PARSONS answered that the land sale program is statewide.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked how many acres SB 97 is expected to
affect.
MR. PARSONS replied that normally the department offers 200
parcels in 3 to 5 acre-sized lots. He expressed a belief that an
expanded fund cap will result in doubling the department's
annual offering.
3:49:29 PM
SENATOR STEVENS noted that the commissioner emphasized hunting,
gathering, and growing in her opening remarks. He asked how the
department plans to balance two very different things, that is,
the balance between hunting, gathering, and growing with private
ownership.
MR. PARSONS answered that balance is maintained through a
robust, 2 to 5-year, statewide planning process which identifies
lands selected for habitat, lands selected for agriculture,
lands selected for future development, and lands selected for
retention under state ownership.
3:51:02 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked for verification that over 90 percent of
land in Alaska is owned by public federal, state, and municipal
entities, compared to less than 10 percent of land that is
individually owned or owned by private entities.
MR. PARSONS answered that one percent of Alaska is privately
owned. He added that combined with ANCSA corporations, private
land ownership totals 12 percent.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked whether 12 percent is the lowest
percentage of privately held land in the United States.
MR. PARSONS answered yes. Alaska has the lowest percentage of
privately owned land of any state in the union.
SENATOR VON IMHOF concluded that Alaskans enjoy not only the
largest number of square miles for public use, but the largest
percentage of public land designated for recreational use, play
and enjoyment in the United States.
3:52:34 PM
SENATOR BISHOP asked if the fund cap was lifted from $5 million
to $12 million, would that result in more working capital to
conduct surveys and build access roads. Also, would the lift
theoretically increase the value of the property, so larger
premiums might be obtained.
MR. PARSONS expressed his belief the statement is accurate. He
said that the department could certainly increase the number of
offerings it makes. He continued that wherever access is
expanded, whether it be through constructed roads, hardening
trails, or off-road vehicle paths, access adds value to the
land.
3:53:36 PM
MR. PARSONS moved on to slide 4, Commercial Use.
COMMERCIAL USE
Commercial Use Land Sales
This new statute governing the leasing
and sale of state lands deemed suitable
for commercial development, within
Qualified Opportunity Zones or in state
determined commercial development
areas
• Land can be nominated by the public
• Leasing option to complete requirements for sale and
allow immediate commercial activity
• After conclusion of the lease requirements a sale
will occur
• Individuals have requested a program to allow for
such sales
• The number of acres identified for proposed
development will be significant and the number of
acres conveyed will depend on the proposals received
MR. PARSONS said that the department wants to foster and promote
commercial development of state lands. He compared the current
land purchase process with the process detailed in section 14 of
SB 97, which is also outlined in the bullet points above. He
briefly explained that this bill allows an individual to
approach the department with a plan to develop up to a 20-acre
parcel, it allows the commissioner to enter into a lease
agreement with the individual, and it allows the individual who
has proved-up and is in good standing, to purchase the property
for continued commercial use. He said this creative idea
supports businesses; it provides access to one of the state's
largest assets, that being land. He hoped that this will
encourage development and expand economies in remote areas of
Alaska.
3:56:20 PM
SENATOR KIEHL referenced the following in Section 14 of SB 97:
Sec. 38.05.086.
(b)(2) state land nominated by the public; public
nominations under this paragraph are limited to one
for each person and may not exceed 640 acres in size;
Sec 39.05.086.
(e)(2) the specific location and description,
including amount, of land requested for the proposed
commercial development; the amount of land requested
in a response to request for proposals may not exceed
20 acres and must be reasonably compact.
SENATOR KIEHL asked for further explanation of the process,
specifically the 640-acre nomination of public land and the 20-
acre request for proposal limit.
MR. PARSONS explained that a person may identify an appropriate
site for their commercial business, then nominate up to 640
acres where that commercial activity could potentially occur.
The intent is not to convey large acreage for commercial
purposes. While 640 acres may be nominated, a 20-acre limit is
deemed ample for most small businesses to develop.
SENATOR KIEHL asked whether the commissioner could approve a 20-
acre lease request or if the request would have to go through a
competitive bid process.
MR. PARSONS answered there are two ways to approve a lease.
First, an individual may nominate land and provide a plan, then
the commissioner may enter directly into a lease. Second, the
department identifies commercial sites, then opens the sites for
proposals. If only one proposal is submitted, the commissioner
may enter into a lease with that individual. If more than one
proposal is submitted, those who submitted proposals would bid
competitively against each other for the lease.
3:59:06 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE sought clarification about the difference
between current practice and the proposed changes in this bill.
He asked if both methods to acquire land, either through the
annual program or through a nomination process, are allowed
today.
MR. PARSONS answered that both the annual program and the
nomination process are currently available.
SENATOR MICCICHE asked what the difference is between the
current methods to attain land and the methods proposed for
commercial use in this bill.
MR. PARSONS replied that land nominated by an individual, under
current statute, must go through the competitive bid process.
This bill allows an individual to nominate land for commercial
purposes, submit a plan, bypass the competitive bid process,
enter into a lease agreement and prove-up on the land in order
to be eligible to purchase that land. He added that this bill
brings in elements of the old homestead and commercial leasing
statutes currently in place for commercial/recreational
development.
SENATOR MICCICHE followed-up with a question about recreational
leases. He noted that a gap exists currently that fails to
benefit previously improved recreational property in the same
way as commercial. He asked if SB 97 might absorb previously
leased recreational lands under the commercial property
category.
MR. PARSONS answered that neither the commercial nor the
agricultural portion of this bill pertain to recreational
parcels. He said further conversation is needed to address the
gap for recreational sites.
4:01:55 PM
DAVE SCHADE, Director, Division of Agriculture, Department of
Natural Resources, Palmer, Alaska, continued the presentation
with slide 5, Agriculture Lands. He stated that simple but
important changes to the bill reduce restrictions on
agricultural land disposal.
Reduced Restrictions to Agricultural Land
Disposals
Statutes are modified to reduce restrictions on
agricultural land to private ownership
• Reduces parcel size from a minimum of 40 acres to
20 acres when subdividing
• Increases the number of parcels from a maximum of
four parcels to eight parcels when subdividing
MR. SCHADE explained this allows the larger 640-acre parcels of
agriculture to be divided into smaller, more economic units.
• Allows for land use and improvements, including
those that do not limit the primary use for
agricultural purposes
MR. SCHADE noted that another important modification is the
expanded interpretation of the term agricultural use." The
original statute was written for traditional agricultural use,
mainly, to grow crops. This bill allows a broader range of farm
activities. So long as the activities do not conflict with the
farm's primary agricultural purpose, other activities such as
agri-tourism, may not be limited. He noted that this small, but
significant, change to the definition of agricultural use is
expected to increase potential earnings on farms.
4:04:15 PM
CHAIR REVAK asked whether the agricultural provisions of SB 97
apply to both individuals who currently have agricultural land
as well as to individuals who have yet to enter into an
agricultural lease agreement.
MR. SCHADE explained that there are two designations for
currently owned agricultural property:
Old Title old title land may be subdivided an unlimited number
of times; each parcel may be no smaller than 40-acres.
New Title new title land may be subdivided a maximum of
4 times into 4 lots; each parcel may be no smaller than 40-
acres.
MR. SCHADE said that subdivided land is a one-time deal.
Specifically, this bill will not apply to old or new title land
which has already been subdivided. SB 97 will not affect that
which was already done. However, this bill will impact land that
has not been subdivided and is currently in private ownership
with agricultural covenants. It allows the department to sell
land with agricultural covenants down to 20 acres instead of the
minimum 40-acre parcel.
4:06:06 PM
MR. PARSONS continued with slide 6, Development.
DEVELOPMENT
Road Development and Minimum
Lot Size Standards
The bill clarifies statutes relating to the
development of roads and minimum lot size standards
• Provides statute language to ensure State land
disposals are held to the same platting and
zoning requirements as all municipal projects for
both lot size and constructed access
MR. PARSONS recalled a bill proposed in a previous session that
granted the state platting authority of all state lands, even
lands within organized boroughs. He stated that after careful
consideration of the input from the Alaska Municipal League
(AML), the department's "platting authority" position changed.
Hence, "platting authority" verbiage was removed from the bill.
He expressed the belief that the LDFI fund cap increase will
enable the state to comply with borough and municipal concerns
that pertain to road construction standards. He added that the
state and AML jointly agreed to modify construction standards in
AS 19.30.080, so the state is held to the same construction
standards as any developer, not greater standards. This puts the
state on a level playing field for development costs to bring
the land to market.
4:07:50 PM
MR. PARSONS continued the presentation with slide 7, Additional
Sales and Authorities.
ADDITIONAL SALES
AND AUTHORITIES
Additional Sale
Authorities
Provides for ease of Land Sales purchase contracts and
clarification
• Modifies auction requirements for easier
administration of land offerings
o Allows for more modern sale
options, including online auctions
MR. PARSONS added that the objective is to reach a wider
audience and increase involvement in state land sales. SB 79
brings auction language up to date with modern sales practices,
so that auctions reach a wider audience. He cited the example of
online auctions like eBay.
• Increase max contract term to 30 years
o Currently capped at 20 years
o Allows for longer financing of
higher value parcels
MR. PARSONS explained that the state wants to remove cost
barriers to make the purchase of land more attainable. The term
increase from 20 years to 30 years reduces the
monthly/quarterly/annual payment amount, which makes the
purchase of land less cost prohibitive.
• Language referencing "foreclosure" is modified to
"termination" to align with the current
administrative process
MR. PARSONS stated that this small language modification
protects the state from certain foreclosure related litigation.
4:10:07 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked which sections of the bill reference online
sales.
MR. PARSONS replied Section 5 of the bill references auctions.
SENATOR KIEHL asked which sections of the bill require
competition and public notice to prevent collusion and bid
rigging.
MR. PARSONS replied that the constitutional and statutory
requirements for competition and public notice are intact. He
said that although this bill allows for an additional sales
method, the public process remains unchanged.
4:12:20 PM
MR. PARSONS advanced to slide 8, Recreational Rivers. He
provided a historical overview of the enormous increase in
recreational river use and commercial development that occurred
in the Anchorage area and Susitna River drainage in the mid-70s
to early-80s. In response to river use and development, the
Susitna Basin Recreational River Management Plan (SBRRMP, also
known as: Recreational Rivers, Rec Rivers, and the Plan) was
established and codified in 1988. The Plan put severe
restrictions on land usage, facility construction and left
little wiggle room for the state to work with developers to
expand and grow. He cited several untenable Plan restrictions.
Restrictions included 100 square foot dock-size limitations and
removal of docks every freeze-up. Travel schedule restrictions
included motorized travel one week, but not the next. He said
that the Plan had valuable elements, but restrictions stifled
development and were too extensive for the state to provide
adequate enforcement.
RECREATIONAL RIVERS
Repeal of Recreational Rivers Statutes
The bill repeals statutes relating to the designation
of certain rivers in southcentral Alaska as recreation
rivers, in order to allow for more effective
management of state land
• Reduction of current limitations on land
management
• Repeal will end unenforceable management issues
and restrictions on recreational and commercial
use on over 260,000 acres
o Provides for generally allowed uses
o Allows expansion of commercial land use
opportunities
• Protection of access will be accomplished through
classification of lands that require retention in
state ownership
MR. PARSONS said that currently to amend the Plan, the governor
must appoint a thirteen-member board to review significant
change requests. He described the process as cumbersome; it is
difficult for the state to work alongside lodges that want to
expand and grow their businesses. He said, in contrast to the
restrictive tenants of the current Plan, tools are now available
which accomplish the Plan's mission more efficiently. He
continued that the Susitna Basin Recreational River Management
Plan comprises roughly 260,000 acres, all of which has now been
classified under two recently adopted area plans: "habitat" and
"public recreation use dispersed." The two classifications
provide the framework for equivalent protections, but with the
added flexibility to make amendments through the public process
rather than through a board.
MR. PARSONS concluded that rescission of the Susitna Basin
Recreational River Management Plan and associated legislation,
enables the state to manage state land more nimbly within the
recreational rivers.
4:17:00 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced the term "generally allowed uses" on
slide 8 and asked whether it is a term of art.
MR. PARSONS replied no and clarified that "generally allowed
uses" are established in regulation and determine allowed uses
on state land. For example, the type and size of off-road
vehicles that can be used, the number of days a camp may be set-
up on state land and the type of clearing that can be down for
trail construction.
SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced the repealers for the Recreation
Rivers statutes in Section 19 and requested a list of affected
statutes.
MR. PARSONS agreed and drew attention to a one-page document
provided to the committee. He added that all of the lands which
were contained in the Recreational Rivers Plan are now
classified in, and have management intent under, the Susitna-
Matanuska Area Plan and the Southeast Susitna Area Plan.
4:18:42 PM
SENATOR KIEHL quoted Mr. Parson's testimony that the lands
"could not be cut up and sold off." He said that statement
appears to contradict Section 14 that specifically says that any
area not currently planned is available for commercial use. It
can be nominated and the commissioner can classify or reclassify
it in any land classification, with the exception of areas
designated by the legislature.
SENATOR KIEHL asked whether the land would become eligible to be
cut up and sold if the legislative designations were repealed.
MR. PARSONS answered that the land would be eligible for
nomination but would remain subject to a specified disposal
classification unless it is reclassified, which requires a
public process.
SENATOR KIEHL responded that is precisely what is provided for
in the bill. He questioned the validity of the notion that the
current Management Plan is too restrictive and too tough to
change, especially as it pertains to float plane docks. He
stated that aircraft use is a legislatively compatible activity,
as are recreational and lodge-type facilities. He then asked how
it is that the Management Plan disallows activities that the
statutes expressly permit and why these differences should be of
legislative concern.
MR. PARSONS answered the Plan restricts the number of feet a
dock can protrude into a lake, although weeds in that water
interfere with aircraft moorage. This creates a problem when
planes are unable to get close enough to shore for passengers to
disembark and to unload freight. To amend dock stipulations
requires a 13-member board approval.
4:21:19 PM
SENATOR KIEHL responded that he previously served on the Juneau
Assembly which has 34 boards; members were appointed all the
time and rewrote a lot of plans. He recalled previously proposed
legislation and noted the Mat-Su Borough had concerns about the
repeal of the Rec Rivers. He asked whether the borough's
position had changed on this issue.
MR. PARSONS answered that significant concerns had not been
received from the Mat-Su Borough. He reiterated that Plan
changes would require a public process and the state would work,
as partners, with boroughs. He stated the notion that the public
process will be eliminated is inaccurate; this is not an
opportunity through fiat to make changes.
SENATOR KIEHL clarified that he neither questioned the
administration's use of the public process nor believes the
administration governs by fiat.
4:23:12 PM
CHAIR REVAK shared one of the problem scenarios that led to the
establishment of the Recreational Rivers Plan. He said that a
few days before a fish run, a number of campers would use their
campsites to fashion barricades in order to prevent access to
the river, which effectively monopolized "fishing holes."
Residents voiced concern about the barricades and wanted to
ensure everyone had access to the rivers. He asked for
reassurance that access to the rivers would not be affected by
the repeal.
MR. PARSONS replied that the repeal will not affect "generally
allowed uses." He explained that the Department of Natural
Resources currently is unable to enforce public access to the
rivers; the department is not authorized to issue a citation nor
a ticket. The department's authority to move campers is the same
whether the Plan is in place or not.
CHAIR REVAK asked about parcel sales on fishing spots.
MR. PARSONS replied that prior to a sale, land must go through a
public process to be reclassified as either "habitat" or
dispersed public recreation and go through the Mat-Su Borough
platting board for plan approval. It is a multiple-iterative
public process before the lands can be offered for sale.
4:25:30 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF referred to a handout which identified the
following recreational rivers: Alexander Creek, Kroto Creek,
Moose Creek, etc... She asked him to repeat the titles of the
plans that would govern the rivers if SBRRMP were repealed.
MR. PARSONS answered the Susitna-Matanuska Area Plan, and the
Southeast Susitna Area Plan. He clarified that land identified
as "wildlife habitat" and "public use recreation dispersed"
under SBRRMP, would retain those classifications in state
ownership along with the Plan's management intent. Any
adjudicator that issued a permit would do so in accordance with
the Plan's management intent. Also, to be eligible for disposal,
any land sales must go through a public process to be
reclassified as settlement land or agricultural land.
SENATOR VON IMHOF requested confirmation that two state area
plans are currently established to manage the rivers should
SBRRMP be repealed.
MR. PARSONS answered that is correct.
SENATOR VON IMHOF commented that it makes sense to relieve a
degree of pressure on Ship Creek, Bird Creek, Russian River,
Kenai River and Kasilof River. Alaska has a lot of land to
recreate and that is why we live in this great state, she said.
4:28:05 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE stated that in the Mat-Su drainage, people have
put a lot of time and energy into the issues, and habitat
protection has been the key in the area. He requested a list of
statutory matchups to verify protections remain in effect if the
recreational river statutes are repealed.
MR. PARSONS answered that he will provide the matchups, as well
as the stipulations from the area plans that provide the same
protections.
SENATOR MICCICHE changed subjects. He mentioned that
agricultural use requirements have softened in the Lower 48 and
resulted in the split-up of large swaths of land; small
subdivisions are sold off en masse and it rendered the land
unusable for its intended purpose. He asked for further
explanation of Section 16 which pertains to this topic but is
unclear.
MR. PARSONS deferred to Mr. Schade.
MR. SCHADE asked Senator Micciche to repeat the question.
SENATOR MICCICHE referenced Section 16, page 11, lines 25-28 of
the bill:
(3) the commissioner may not
(A) limit the right of the landowner to use the
land and improvements for purposes that are
[INCIDENTAL TO AND] not inconsistent with and do not
limit the primary use of the land for agricultural
purposes;
SENATOR MICCICHE asked whether the proposed change in paragraph
(3)(A) eliminates the requirement that land be used strictly for
agricultural purposes. He voiced concern that the proposed
change might chip away at the purpose for which agricultural use
only lands were established.
MR. SCHADE explained that the primary purpose of land under
Section 16 continues to be for agricultural use. The difference
is that the definition of agricultural use is expanded to
include improvements that are consistent with, and that do not
limit, the land's primary purpose. For example, a landowner
would be permitted to start an agriculture-related business
under SB 97, such as, an agri-tourism, "participation on the
farm" bed and breakfast, so long as the business did not
interfere with the primary purpose of the land. This type of
symbiotic, agricultural business-model is not currently
permitted, but would be under SB 97.
4:32:35 PM
SENATOR MICCICHE switched topics and asked for examples of lands
that are available for conveyance through both commercial and
agricultural programs, what the land looks like and where the
land is located.
MR. SCHADE referred the commercial portion of the question to
Mr. Parsons but spoke to the agricultural portion of the
question. He said the state currently has 180,000 acres in the
Nenana Totchaket Project. The department is actively designing
the first phase of the project which crosses the Tanana at
Nenana; the bridge was opened in July. The private sector laid
17 miles of road that made it possible to get Lidar (light
detection and ranging) and photography. The Division of Mining,
Land and Water was able to work with the Division of Agriculture
on a preliminary design. He said that of the 180,000 acres
designated to this project, 120,000 acres are suitable for
agriculture.
MR. SCHADE listed the following locations of additional small
parcels around the state:
- the Interior;
- the Peninsula "North Fork Micro Project" is under development
by the Division of Mining, Land and Water and the Division of
Agriculture. Approximately 400 acres of agriculture/general
use land will be available in the next couple of years;
- potential ranch land in 20-acre to 640-acre parcels in the
Nenana Totchaket Project;
- agricultural land in North Susitna; and
- agricultural hydroponics on a small scale in Southeast.
MR. SCHADE concluded that indoor agriculture can be used from
Bethel to northern Alaska and the possibilities are exciting.
SENATOR MICCICHE commented that he likes SB 97 because it is
time to put more land in private hands.
4:36:19 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF lamented that there are too few economic
opportunities in rural communities. She stated that land sales
are a good way to stimulate cottage industries, small
businesses, and sole proprietorships, so citizens can earn a
living.
4:36:46 PM
CHAIR REVAK thanked the presenters and opened public testimony
on SB 97.
4:37:40 PM
MEL GILLIS, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated that
for the past 40 years, he has been unable to buy the piece of
property which he leased, built a cabin on, and used for guide
services. He said it has been difficult for small businesses to
obtain property, and he supports SB 97.
4:39:04 PM
MARGARET STERN, representing self, Talkeetna, Alaska, testified
in opposition to SB 97. She echoed the concerns that the borough
raised when the bill was presented in 2020. She stated that the
bill and repeal of protections are short-sited and detrimental
to the interests of the people and Alaskans in the watershed.
She encouraged responsible development.
CHAIR REVAK stated that it was difficult to hear Ms. Stern's
testimony and invited her to email it to sres@akleg.gov.
4:41:08 PM
HOWARD CARBONE, Board Member, Susitna River Coalition,
Talkeetna, Alaska, testified in opposition to SB 97. He cited
Governor Dunleavy and disputed that the bill's purpose is to
give Alaskans greater access to land. He expressed his belief
that the purpose of SB 97 is to promote land sales to facilitate
the easiest, fastest, and cheapest construction of the West
Susitna Access Road, regardless of the consequences to Alaska's
land and natural resources. He stated that if the bill passes,
the protectionary barriers currently in place will be removed
from statute. These include the six recreation rivers, five of
which are in the West Susitna area.
MR. CARBONE said that the Recreational Rivers Plan was
established with visionary, bi-partisan legislation to protect
fish and wildlife. This is why both the Mat-Su Borough and the
Mat-Su Fish and Wildlife Commission oppose this bill. He
recommended that the state avoid destructive short-cuts and
develop in such a way as to protect the state's natural
resources.
4:42:53 PM
ANDREW COUCH, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, testified in
opposition to SB 97. He stated that he is the owner of Fishtale
River Guides and he works in the Mat-Su Valley. He guides on
Alexander Creek, Deshka River and Little Susitna River, and
fishes on Talkeetna River and Lake Creek, but has never been all
the way to Talachulitna River. He described these salmon streams
as the best in the Valley since the founding of the Recreational
Rivers Plan. He noted that Alexander Creek has declined due to
the heavy population of pike. The most heavily used streams for
recreational use are the Deshka, Little Susitna, Talkeetna, and
Lake Creek; the streams are very important to recreational
users. He said that although commercial use is not available on
these streams, the streams receive a lot of it already. He
suggested that the expansion of commercial users might displace
the businesses that are already established. In addition to
guides and lodges, the rivers are used by dip netters,
subsistence fishers, and also by commercial users in Cook Inlet.
He said that the removal of the Susitna Basin Recreation Rivers
Management Plan coupled with increased development along the
rivers is likely to be detrimental to both fish and wildlife. He
concluded that although Alaskans may not be able to drive to all
the rivers, there is good access by boat to hunt and fish.
Unfortunately, private ownership up and down the river will
affect, possibly restrict, public access and use.
4:45:57 PM
KENDRA ZAMZOW, representing self, Chickaloon, Alaska, testified
in opposition to SB 97. Ms. Zamzow indicated that she has served
on a board within the Mat-Su borough and participates on the
Science and Data Committee of the Mat-Su Salmon Habitat
Partnership. She stated that she opposes parts of SB 97, namely:
- Repeal of the Recreational Rivers. She said that she knows
through personal experience it is not difficult to put a board
together to resolve problems.
- Changes to agricultural land covenants in Sections 15 17.
She warned that changes to the covenants could open the door to
the destruction of soil. She clarified that if anything is more
precious than the state's rivers and riparian areas, it is its
agricultural soil. She stated that she is not opposed to a one-
acre bed and breakfast on a 160-acre farm. However, economic
boosts are not adequate reason to permit large-scale soil
removal. She recommended amending SB 97 to include the
prevention of soil removal from agricultural land.
4:47:38 PM
MICHAEL OVERCAST, owner, Tordrillo Mountain Lodge, Judd Lake,
Alaska, testified in support of SB 97. He stated that he, Tommy
Moe, and others own a limited liability company which operates
the Tordrillo Lodge. It is located on Judd Lake at the top of
the Talachulitna River. The lodge opened in 2005 and offers
visitors both summer and winter activities. He stated he
supports the repeal of the Recreational Rivers Act in Sections
19 and 20 of the bill. He mentioned that Judd Lake is a 50-acre
lake and sits within the management area covered by the Act.
MR. OVERCAST provided a historical overview of the Recreational
Rivers. He stated that the Recreational Rivers Act became law in
1988 and was adopted in 1991. He said that the Recreational
Rivers Act and Susitna Basin Recreational River Management Plan
were intended to be flexible. They were to be reviewed every
five years with public input and input from a Recreational
Rivers Advisory Board comprised of a broad cross-section of the
affected public. He said the shelf life of the Plan was intended
to be 20 years. He underscored that it has been more than 30
years since the Plan was adopted and there has never been:
- a periodic five-year review of the Plan;
- a public review of the Plan;
- public input; nor
- input from the Recreation Rivers Advisory Board. He said the
Recreation Rivers Advisory Board is not even seated or
functional today and has not been for several years.
MR. OVERCAST remarked that the Plan has never been funded for
staff nor public outreach. He commented that in light of today's
economic reality, it is unrealistic to expect Plan funding for
proper implementation, broad public input, a recurrent five-year
review, and an educational component.
MR. OVERCAST stressed that the world has changed dramatically in
the past 30-years while the Act and Plan have remained static.
He said the Plan, by its own terms, was to be flexible and to be
amended as conditions changed around the world. He said it does
not make sense for DNR to continue to administer a Plan that
lags 30-years behind. It impedes development of recreation
opportunities that are harmonious with nature, in both the
private and commercial sector. It also puts approved commercial
recreation opportunities in peril. He suggested that the
Recreational Rivers Plan be retooled, specifically to give DNR
the authority to keep the Plan up-to-date and relevant.
4:51:09 PM
CHAIR REVAK asked Mr. Overcast to specify which parts of the
Plan should be retooled.
MR. OVERCAST replied that he would retool the dock size
limitation. He explained that the 100 square foot dock
limitation fails to protrude far enough out into the lake; it
only extends far enough out to reach a water depth of two feet.
He pointed out that the original dock extended further into the
lake and was incorporated into the Plan as such. Later however,
DNR denied a request to rebuild the dock with better materials.
4:52:19 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF indicated that Senator Micciche previously
requested a chart to compare/contrast the SBRRP against the
Susitna-Matanuska Area Plan. She stated that it makes sense to
repeal the SBRRP if the Matanuska Area Plan is adequate. She
supported reasonable docks to avoid the problem of operating a
Beaver, Otter or 206 in only two feet of water.
MR. OVERCAST agreed that two feet of water is a problem.
4:53:07 PM
CHAIR REVAK closed public testimony on SB 97 and held the bill
in committee for further consideration.
^Confirmation Hearings
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Regulatory Commission of Alaska
4:53:23 PM
CHAIR REVAK announced the consideration of governor appointees
to the Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA).
SENATOR REVAK recognized Robert Pickett who was reappointed to a
third term on March 1, 2020. If confirmed, his term would expire
March 1, 2026. He asked Mr. Pickett to give a brief summary of
his personal background and the reasons he wants to continue to
serve.
ROBERT PICKETT, Appointee, Regulatory Commission of Alaska
(RCA), Department of Commerce, Community and Economic
Development (DCCED), Palmer, Alaska, stated he had been an RCA
commissioner for the past 13 years and chair for eight of those
years.
MR. PICKETT said that he wishes to continue to serve on the
Commission as it faces the following challenges:
- The Sunset Review Process of the Alaska Universal Service
Fund. With the passage of SB 83 (ch. 24, SLA 19) the telecom
deregulation act created challenges for the future of rural
telecommunications and questions about the appropriate role for
the Commission.
- SB 123 (ch. 29, SLA 20) directs the Commission to oversee the
creation of an electric reliability organization. Passage of
this bill was triggered by a 2014 legislative directive to
evaluate the Railbelt electrical system and find the most
appropriate structure to coordinate grid development. After
vigorous input from industry, concerned parties and the public,
the Commission submitted findings and recommendations to the
legislature on July 21, 2015, which resulted in the passage of
Senate Bill 123. The Commission is currently in the regulation
development phase, so that changes made in that legislation can
be implemented.
- Due to the change of ownership, the Commission concurrently
regulates the Trans Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS) in conjunction
with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Issues to be
addressed include tariff actions and critical infrastructure
protection.
4:57:51 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI read the eligibility requirements to serve as
an RCA commissioner, then invited Mr. Pickett to elaborate on
his qualifications to serve on the commission.
MR. PICKET recounted his experience. He stated that he studied
EE for a couple of years, then switched focus to earn a Bachelor
of Arts in political science and public administration. He
stated that he served in the public sector for twenty-one years,
the majority of which was at the Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation. He noted that he managed a number of different
public programs.
4:58:59 PM
CHAIR REVAK thanked Mr. Pickett for his service. Senator Revak
announced the next appointee up for consideration to the
Regulatory Commission of Alaska is Keith Kurber, appointed
March 1, 2021. If confirmed, his term would expire March 1,
2027. He asked Mr. Kurber to give a synopsis of his personal
background and tell the committee why he is interested in
serving on the Regulatory Commission of Alaska.
KEITH KURBER, Appointee, Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA),
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development
(DCCED), Fairbanks, Alaska, stated that he served 30 years in
the United States Army, spread evenly between active duty, the
National Guard and the US Army Reserve. He specified that his
service included three wartime mobilizations, Operation Enduring
Freedom I and XIII, and Iraqi Freedom V. He retired with the
rank of colonel as a Special Forces officer in 2011.
MR. KURBER said that his civilian career included service as
vocational minister, pastor, and police and fire officer at the
Fairbanks International Airport. Formal educational experience
includes a Bachelor of Science degree from the U.S. Military
Academy at West Point, a master's degree in organizational
leadership and a Doctor of Ministry from the Luther Rice College
and Seminary. He said that graduation from a variety of military
training courses were very formative in his personal and
professional development. Such training included, U.S. Army
Rangers and Special Forces, and Alaska State Troopers.
MR. KURBER expressed his belief that his strong service ethos
coupled with his background and life experience qualifies him to
analyze complex issues and make critical decisions under severe
time pressure. He stated that he brings a geographical diverse
perspective which will be valuable to the Commission.
SENATOR VON IMHOF stated both appointees have impressive
backgrounds and thanked both appointees.
5:03:04 PM
CHAIR REVAK echoed the sentiments of Senator von Imhof and
opened public testimony on the Regulatory Commission of Alaska
appointees.
5:03:47 PM
ALYSSA SAPPENFIELD, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska,
testified in opposition to Mr. Kurber's appointment to the RCA.
She stated she is an energy analyst for the Alaska Public
Interest Research Group, AKPIRG, established in 1974 to advocate
on behalf of public and consumer interests.
MS. SAPPENFIELD referred to the RCA press release which
announced Mr. Kurber's appointment. She pointed out that the
press release failed to demonstrate Mr. Kurber met the
eligibility requirements to serve on the commission. She
stressed that the RCA has a responsibility to oversee high
stakes cases where critical issues of regulatory policy arise.
Arbiters represent interests as diverse as low-income consumers
and large industrial entities. Cases raise issues of law,
economics, accounting, finance, and engineering that can
establish legal precedent for future legal cases. She stated
that the RCA's regulatory role is the pursuit of outcomes which
protect and promote the overall public interest. Each decision
can be appealed to a state or federal court and must be
supported by evidentiary records, applicable laws, and
regulations. Hence, the technical qualifications required by
statute are not dispensable or superfluous. She said the
importance of statutory requirements cannot be overstated.
MS. SAPPENFIELD recited Mr. Kurber academic history and said
it does not equate with the statutory requirements. She
requested that the statutory requirements be satisfied and asked
that Mr. Kurber's qualifications be clarified for the public.
5:06:41 PM
CHAIR REVAK closed public testimony and took a brief at ease.
5:07:38 PM
CHAIR REVAK reconvened the meeting and offered Mr. Kurber the
opportunity to speak to his qualifications.
MR. KURBER clarified that his Bachelor of Science was not
awarded with a specifically named major. He explained that at
the time, West Point graduates received a Bachelor of Science
and general engineering degree, because that was their mandate.
He said this has since changed and graduates now have a choice.
He said that his transcripts reflect a heavy focus in science
and engineering with a concentration in Russian literature. He
surmised that his 36-year work history has provided a broad
focus in public affairs and public administration that will
serve him well as a commissioner. He quipped that under duress,
the engineering was not always his favorite subject, but that he
was proud he got through it, graduated West Point, and went on
to use what he learned in practical applications.
5:09:38 PM
CHAIR REVAK found no further questions and asked for a motion.
SENATOR VON IMHOF moved that the following named appointees be
forwarded to a joint session of the legislature for
consideration.
Regulatory Commission of Alaska
Robert Pickett - Palmer
Keith Kurber II - Fairbanks
CHAIR REVAK asked if there was objection.
SENATOR KIEHL stated he would take Mr. Kurber up on his offer
for the transcripts, but he had no objection to the motion.
5:10:17 PM
CHAIR REVAK found no objection and the motion passed. He stated
that in accordance with AS 39.05.080, a signature on the report
in no way reflects individual members' intent to vote for or
against the confirmation of the individuals during any further
sessions.
5:10:52 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Revak adjourned the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 5:10 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 97 Sponsor Statement 2.26.21.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SB97 HB120 Rec Rivers One-Pager.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
HB 120 SB 97 |
| SB97 Land Surface Disposal One-Pager.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SB 97 SRES DNR Land Sales Presentation 3.17.2021.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SB 97 Sectional Analysis Version A 3.9.21.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SRES GOV's Apt RCA Robert Pickett & Keith Kurber.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
|
| SB 97 Oppose Letters 3.17.21.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SB 97 Support Letter Tordrillo 3.17.21.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |
| SB 97 Oppose Letters 3.23.21.pdf |
SRES 3/17/2021 3:30:00 PM |
SB 97 |